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Post by czbrno on Mar 26, 2010 2:04:26 GMT -5
You have this really nice dog and want to take your "line" further.
You realise that your dog is only suitable for experienced and prepared owners ,not for the novice or "mainstream" owners.
SO knowing that it is impossible to predict the amount of pups born and knowing that suitable homes are not in plentiful supply do you breed?
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Post by stag on Mar 26, 2010 3:44:41 GMT -5
culling is the way forward.....The rescue homes are at bursting point now.So i wont be adding to that problem.
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Post by czbrno on Mar 26, 2010 4:13:42 GMT -5
I agree that culling is the right choice if such a breeding is unertaken - but unfortunately not something done by many in this day and age.
It is hard - but not as hard as the life lead by misplaced/unwanted / unrehomable dogs
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Post by stag on Mar 26, 2010 4:23:59 GMT -5
Thats right mate it is an old school way of working but the right way in my eyes.....cruel to be kind as they say....it is a taboo subject but one worth discussing.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Mar 26, 2010 5:39:41 GMT -5
I personally wouldnt breed until I have at least a litter worth ie 10 secured homes on a waiting list. If I were to have more I would try to find a home for them but if not i'd keep them, spay them and then maybe re-home them as and when the right home comes along, if not they'd stay.
Although culling is as you say the best way of ensuring the dog doesnt lead a life of being misplaced or unwanted, its something I dont have the courage to do without feeling guilty. If Im going to breed, its my responsibility to find the right homes and if not I need to take responsibility of looking after the dog, otherwise I just wouldnt breed.
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Post by Jessica on Mar 26, 2010 5:44:18 GMT -5
Well Bev you know my thoughts on the subject and very much the breeders responsibility.
But there is allot to consider and not straight forward.
Firstly IMO there are only two ages it can be done for the sake of the whelping bitch... either as soon as they are born, or at 8 weeks. This then makes sure the bitch doesn't get unsettled and then you know what you are looking at too to make sure you are making the right pick.
Either way you look at it, its hard and sad but its the breeders responsibility to do whats best for the pups and the breed. I know i would rather cull than have a life uncertainty and insecurity, I believe as a breeder you owe it to them. If the homes you have are anything less than 100% perfect its not good enough.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Mar 26, 2010 8:06:08 GMT -5
Firstly IMO there are only two ages it can be done for the sake of the whelping bitch... either as soon as they are born, or at 8 weeks. But theyre so cute at 8 weeks  To be honest I wanted to cull the litter that was produced from the accidental mating between Kane and Storm as soon as they were born and before I had a bond with them and phoned several vets and asked them to do it.....none of them would. I did consider doing it myself but couldnt even bring myself to picking the pups up at that point. Ive ended up keeping the 2 bitches, because as you say Jess if a homes not 100% perfect its not good enough and to be honest sometimes I think I have bitten off more than I can chew but theres no way i'd ever consider giving them to a home where their future was uncertain or unknown. |
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Post by stag on Mar 26, 2010 8:15:33 GMT -5
If my old nan was still alive she would tell you...during the war lol..the pups would be put into a hemp sack a thrown in the thames....I think what it is times have changed and we have all become to soft from to much good living compared to harder times in history.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Mar 26, 2010 9:14:03 GMT -5
Completely agree "Stag"  I think we have become too soft, although ask me to cull pedophiles and i'll be out like a shot and gladly start the cull lol, but puppies.....couldnt do it lol |
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Post by czbrno on Mar 26, 2010 9:18:51 GMT -5
Ending a life of any kind should always be done with consideration and welfare always in mind.
Unfortunately ,and especially these days,it is at times the right thing to do.
The only reason for not culling excess pups is because of our emotions of course,but if i ever breed again it shall be inevitable i feel.
Anyone who felt happy to cull would be unsuitable as a dog breeder imo......but hopefully would be comfortable with that decision should it be necessary.
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Post by Jessica on Mar 26, 2010 9:49:15 GMT -5
Firstly IMO there are only two ages it can be done for the sake of the whelping bitch... either as soon as they are born, or at 8 weeks. But theyre so cute at 8 weeks To be honest I wanted to cull the litter that was produced from the accidental mating between Kane and Storm as soon as they were born and before I had a bond with them and phoned several vets and asked them to do it.....none of them would. I did consider doing it myself but couldn't even bring myself to picking the pups up at that point. Ive ended up keeping the 2 bitches, because as you say Jess if a homes not 100% perfect its not good enough and to be honest sometimes I think I have bitten off more than I can chew but theres no way i'd ever consider giving them to a home where their future was uncertain or unknown. Yes they are very cute at 8 weeks but what about when they are 8 months or 8 years? .... they don't stay puppy's for ever and become fully grown dogs that people are not so forgiving to. I know what you are saying Sonia i really do. The dog Bev has just taken back Solo was a huge slap in the face for me.... I have to ask myself could i face having a pup returned to me in that state and it makes me question what is the best thing to do by the dog in the first place. I am not saying that if we cant home all the pups we from poppy and butch we would cull, but what i am saying it has to be something to consider when dogs like ours are produce what ever the circumstances. So far we have some superb homes lined up and looks as though we are going to be fine, but if that hadn't been the case we would have to weigh up all our options. Harsh but maybe fair  |
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Mar 26, 2010 10:54:51 GMT -5
Totally agree and Id much rather see a dog culled than live a life of being passed from pillar to post or used as a breeding machine in a terrible home and yes having a dog returned being neglected or abused, when you thought it had a great home is one of the worst things I can imagine.
But for me even though I seriously considered culling my litter of pups it would be the most heart breaking decision i'd ever have to make and not sure if I could do it, which is why I dont see myself breeding any time soon, unless Im able to secure homes and have the space and resources to home the ones I cant find homes for.
But youre right its the responsible thing to do by the dog and its future, if the dog cant be placed in a suitable home or its not able to stay with the breeder.
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Post by relic on Mar 26, 2010 11:30:42 GMT -5
were are all the pups going to go is one of the mane reasons why i do not breed any more, i have not bred a litter in about 15 years and i have never studded my old boy out, i prefer to go to some with a plan and goal with a top breeding program to get my dogs now and be more then happy |
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Post by crazyhorse on Mar 26, 2010 18:46:41 GMT -5
were are all the pups going to go is one of the mane reasons why i do not breed any more, i have not bred a litter in about 15 years and i have never studded my old boy out, i prefer to go to some with a plan and goal with a top breeding program to get my dogs now and be more then happy Same here there is so much choice theres not much need to produce a litter just to keep a pup or two , id rather invest time into researching other breeders progammes to find exactly what i want and save myself all the hassle of raising and homing a litter , ive had five litters in 22 years my last about 10 years back and decided theres enough on the merry go round , so i leave it to the specialists these days |
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