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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 10, 2010 10:35:56 GMT -5
Of course you have to do whatever you think is best for your dogs. For me the science is very well proven over many years, vetinary medicine is the same as human medicine and I don't think many people would deny their children vaccines so the same should apply to dogs. I personally know someone who lost two young dogs to Parvo virus because they didn't get jabs, it's just not worth the risk. BTW Glen, I don't think Neil was reffering to anyone in particular but I'm sure he'll tell you that himself. I understand what youre saying Owen and im in no way denying a risk is there, but how high is the risk would be my question. Also, youre right vaccinations are similar to those children get, but not very long ago even those were being scrutinised as they were potentially doing more harm than good leading to more serious problems than what the actual vaccine was preventing, so some mothers were refusing to allow their children the vaccination (cant remember whether it was for mumps or something). But I do think our dogs immunes systems with the right food and nutrition are very strong and are sometimes under-estimated.
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Post by hogdog on Apr 10, 2010 10:52:02 GMT -5
It was the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps and rubella) that was 'linked' with autism, the link was completely disproved and the doctor who tried to make the connection was the one convicted of gross misconduct that I reffered to earlier. That scare is the reason for measles now being a massive problem in young children when it was more or less wiped out previously.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 10, 2010 11:25:32 GMT -5
Thats the one! lol Ok that may have been disproved and to be honest a humans welfare is way more important than that of a dogs, hence the research and money dedicated to proving the the MMR vaccination was necessary. When it comes to children though, I often wonder why so many kids suffer from so many nut allergies and ADHD in the recent decades when, in my days they were unheard of.......again I personally think its all down to what mothers are feeding their kids and maybe even the vaccinations that are being given to kids. But dogs are a whole different kettle of fish anyway, they have a much stronger immune system and are built to deal with their natural environment. I think the scaremongering effects those that feel its necessary to put the various chemicals and vaccines into your dogs body that you have been advised to do so by a vet that needs his salary paid by regular visits. If it aint broke dont fix it......thats the take I have with my dogs, this is my experiment and I will see what the out come will be, but when a 6 year old dog gets mistaken for a puppy by a vet and the public......well then I think I must be doing something right
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 10, 2010 13:22:39 GMT -5
your number is now deleted 'bud' while i get on with my ice cream
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Post by stag on Apr 11, 2010 1:45:45 GMT -5
If we look at the swine flu jab recently there was going to be a world epidemic...did it come about as bad as they have us believe...No but they are still pushing to have our children innoculated....Its the same as the yearly flu jab does it work no...viruses become immune to treatment after time. The truth is theres alot of money invloved in pharmaceutical companys and that has become more important than all else...Thats the time we live in. For those that do dog jabs yearly there is a one of jab you can give the dog that will last for life ask your vet about it..see if there interested in you having that but i doubt it because there would be no yearly income.As befor these are my opinions and would not try to push them upon others.
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Post by Jessica on Apr 11, 2010 2:27:05 GMT -5
It is in my nature to question everything that is the way that i am.... But after one of our old dogs suffered with bad allergies and 4 out of litter mates have to this day have not one sight of any form of allergy to anything, it got me question whether it was something we had done rather than something genetic. I believe the he his allergies were triggered when he was given Antibiotics at 5 months old after a dog bit him he has sever reactions to the antibiotics prescribed to him and the vet we saw did say that maybe he was slightly young for that certain type- In hindsight i would have questioned it. The allergies he suffered were all related to his digestion. If antibiotics are given before the age of 6 months you may as well expect allergies of some type to develop.... this is actually the same for children. It has proven that the use of the drugs may interfere with development of the gastrointestinal tract and the immune system, making them more vulnerable to allergies in the future. When messing with animals immune system it is a dangerous game if this drug has been proven to potentially cause damage and potential a lifelong issue it certainly makes me question exactly what the vaccines could do. They way is see it is that if you are taking the time and money of going and having a substance injected into your dog you can take the time to research the potentially dangerous side effects....To not do that, well that would be ignorant IMO.... Here are some articles i have found that certainly make me think twice.... www.dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/lepto.htmlwww.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm
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Post by hogdog on Apr 11, 2010 4:54:32 GMT -5
It would be nice to read the actual scientific reports that are talked about in these articles so we can actually make an objective conclusion about the legitamacy and findings of the study rather than just being told that the study supports their argument. Everything I've read there has no scientific basis at all, it relies on guesswork to make a link to vaccines with the only given connection being the timescale between vaccination and illness. It makes no sense to give accounts of illness and then without foundation say 'it was because of a vaccine' and yet that's largely what these sites are saying, the connection is tenuous at best. PROPER Long term studies in human medicine have proven time and time again that there is very little risk (please note that I didn't say NO risk) to health from vaccines and that the benefits vastly outweigh the risks and there's no reason why veterinary medicine should be any different.
Having said that I find it hard to believe that the perfect time for revaccination is a rather convenient 12 months, I think more research is needed there.
That Shirleys-wellness-cafe is absolute rubbish, no scientific basis for anything that is said with a regular input of 'as a practitioner of homeopathy' which might as well say 'as a practitioner of witchcraft'.
I think their disclaimer says it all...
By using this site, you signify your assent to this disclaimer. If you do not agree to this disclaimer, please do not use the site. The information in this web site is presented for the educational and free exchange of ideas and speech in relation to health and wellness only. It is not intended to diagnose any physical or mental condition, or to prescribe or promote any particular product(s). It is not intended as a substitute for the advice and treatment of a licensed professional. In the event that you use the information for your own health, or for your animals, you are prescribing for yourself or your animals, which is your constitutional right and for which the author of this site assumes no responsibility. The author of this website is neither a legal counselor nor a health practitioner, nor a veterinarian and makes no claims in this regard. Reference or links in this web site to any non-government entity, product, service, or information do not constitute endorsement or recommendation. This site is not responsible for the contents of any "off-site" web pages, companies or persons linked or referenced in this site. You are welcome to follow the links and visit the various websites and determine for yourself if the products are for you. ShirleysWellnesCafe.com is a free educational web site created from a labor of love and as a public service. Thank you for your understanding. Shirley
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Post by czbrno on Apr 11, 2010 5:31:53 GMT -5
It is true that the more you look at some things the more complicated they become and it is certainly the case that whilst the internet is a wonderful source of information ,it can also the source of much confusion. I don't tell anyone what to do but if advice is asked of me i am happy to share my experiences. For me ,some of this issue IS about money- not that i mind spending it when needed,but because i don't like feeling ripped off and neither do i want my dogs filled with unneeded drugs on the advice of someone who stands to profit from them being given. I think that everyone who has commented on this subject has done so because they are concerned with their dogs' best interest or at least i would like to hope so.
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cadgi
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by cadgi on Apr 11, 2010 5:40:10 GMT -5
Just my two pennies worth, i once asked my vet for a written guarantee after she had given one of the dog's a jab (love baiting them). guess the answer. i then asked if you can't give me a guarantee with the jab why not, don't they work and if so why are you giving them and why do i need a booster every year. she said you need the booster because every year the jab's are updated/improved. i then asked if they need updateing/improving every year then surely they are not doing the job you say they do, if they were they would not need updateing/improving. she stood there looking at me like a wet wk/ end. Try it next time your in the vet's, great fun,watch their face's. it's all about money, they're a business. how come i can get the very same jab's for 10% the cost the vet's charge, a bottle of penicillin 100ml, £25, yet the vet charge's at least £25 per ml, look at the mark up people. if they cared so much about the work and animal's they say they love then WHY is it all about profit's and mark up's on their price's. this of course is just my humble opinion. if you want to jab your dog's, do it,if you don't want them jabbed, don't. simple's! Ask your selves this, if the first course of jab's work, then i go's that the dog should build up an immunity to the desease, if so why have the booster (i've only had one jab for rubella at school, last's a life time), at the same time if you need a jab every year then i would say the first jab isn't working correctly other wise you wouldn't need a booster every year. hope this make's some sort of logic. A.T.B.........
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Post by stag on Apr 11, 2010 5:42:15 GMT -5
I honestly believe everyone who has commented has there dogs best interests at heart....and i think we would all agree it would be nice to know the truth so we can feel confident in are dogs wellbeing.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 11, 2010 12:15:06 GMT -5
Quality post Lyndon, love it.....I will be quizzing my vet the next time I see him. Just for a laugh! lol As it happens Lyndon, do you remember talking about the little rough patch on the top of Bull Breeds head, which Im sure it was yourself that told me it was nothing to worry about it was just a hereditary trait? Well its something thats never concerned me, but my vet insisted it was a start up of mites and i should have a skin scrapping done on both my pups......I politely declined as I informed him I had been advised by a very knowledgeable dog person that it was nothing to worry about and a skin scrapping would not be necessary, so I left the pups in the room to go settle the bill, by the time I had come back both pups had bleeding bald patches on their head, a skin scrapping done and a tidy little sum of £140 slapped onto my bill ......... welfare of my dog? Dont think so, that probably paid for a nice bottle of wine he took home to his mrs
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Post by crazyhorse on Apr 11, 2010 13:08:28 GMT -5
i wouldnt of paid and would of probably threatend to sue for injuring my dogs some vets are twats , im lucky with mine he dont pester me into anything i dont need and charges very little for what he does
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 11, 2010 14:20:33 GMT -5
Of coarse vets charge a mark up, its their living, they study for years and have large debts before starting. I for one would not shoe a horse fo the price of the metal. I also wouldnt give a guarentee that all four shoes will still be on in 6 weeks. Animals are animals and nothing is a guarentee. I regularly ask my vet at work questons and would have lost Lily a couple of times over wiithout their help. There are different standards of vets and the reply given to Lyndon was not satifactory. Its good to question, but i also believe a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, ive meet many customers who have read a book then tell me how to shoe their horse. It took me 8 years of hard study to gain my qualification, but they know best. I dont feel its an intelligent idea to 'experiment' with your dogs. Thats not being rude to anyone, its an opinion within a debate.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 11, 2010 14:38:45 GMT -5
I think like you say Orangepeel "experience" has a lot to do with it........im confident that after 20 years of actually owning, researching and caring for dogs I know what im doing, 2 dogs gone to cancer at ripe ages and one to old age isnt bad going id say, none have had any viruses and none have had to be put down before their time, pretty successful experiment if you ask me lol ......and if shit does hit the fan, well then theres a bank account ready to support whatever means of treatment they need.
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 11, 2010 15:00:28 GMT -5
pointless discussin anymore. One thing i would say is you can only say something is doing its job with scientific proof, something that does exsist with these vaccinatons. If you had scientific proof to say to the contrary then i would take heed, but that doesn't excist. What research have you done on this matter, because listening to your argument i cant hear much research at all. Ive no doubt you have a capable bank account, my refrence to money was not that anyone on here could not afford it, just that i can see no other reason why you wouldn't vaccinate. Sometimes money cant rescue an animal, putting it down is your only option
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