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Post by czbrno on Apr 11, 2010 5:38:05 GMT -5
Has anyone lost or known of any dogs lost to the diseases we routinely vaccinate against?
Years ago i lost some cats to a virus for which they had been vaccinated against - i obviously was'nt very happy and despite having swabs sent to Scotland to prove my case the vaccine company( Nobivac) didnt want to know
Has anyone had this happen with dogs- were they vaccinated or not?
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kager
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Post by kager on Apr 12, 2010 2:01:35 GMT -5
Never lost a dog to any disease it has been vaccinated against..I was always pretty much anti vacs..until Digga contracted Weils disease, (Leptospirosis)..it has a very high death rate if contracted..if he had not had the protection of the Jab there is no doubt in my mind he would of been dead..he was close to it for four days..  Deb |
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 12, 2010 14:29:49 GMT -5
after that post i dont sees any argument for not vacinating
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Post by hogdog on Apr 12, 2010 14:45:04 GMT -5
I know someone who lost two young Pits to parvo virus (before the DDA) and someone who lost a puppy Bulldog to canine distemper. They weren't vaccinated.
The trouble with diseases is that they mutate regularly, it's what makes them so succesful. If diseases didn't mutate then we would have wiped out cold, flu and other viruses a long time ago.
It's the reason that vulnerable people are supposed to have flu jabs every year (to vaccinate against the latest mutations of the virus). Flu jabs can't stop you getting flu but they can give you protection against the latest and most dangerous mutations of it, the latest example of this being H1N1, it's still just flu the same as any other flu but it can be very dangerous and is a new mutation to which the body has no defence. If you have an H1N1 vaccination it won't stop you dying of flu but it will stop you dying of the H1N1 variant.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 12, 2010 17:19:54 GMT -5
I personally have never known anyone to have lost dogs to any kind of virus, my dogs have always had their puppy jabs but never the top up jabs every year. Im pretty confident that 90% of the people and friends I have with dogs, have the puppy jabs and never bother with the boosters and if it was such a concern, im pretty sure vets would be hot to remind people about the boosters with warning posters all over the surgery's but nope my vet used to send out reminders but doesnt bother with reminders anymore either....and he's no back yard vet either.
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cadgi
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Post by cadgi on Apr 13, 2010 5:36:59 GMT -5
there used to be such a thing as natural selection, dog's/people would catch a virus and the strong survived, they in turn would produce fitter, sronger, healthy offspring. as they say what dosn't kill you make's you stronger. i think we're makeing a rod for our own back's by relying on tablet's to solve our health issue's be it dog or human, should come down to good breeding and common sense. I have never lost a dog to any kind of virus, lost one to cancer as a older pup, lost many in their field of work and i have culled any weak/inferior one's be they pup's or older dog's that never made the grade, mentaly, physicaly or performance wise. funny how in the so called modern world we live in today there seem's to be more unhealthy dog's than ever, could this be down to modern breeding practise's i wonder? we produce inferior litter's and our answer to the problem is to chuck a pill down it's neck rather than look at the source of the problem, 9 time's out of 10 the breeding. Just a thought, A.T.B...........
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Post by czbrno on Apr 13, 2010 6:03:36 GMT -5
I used to work in a large breeding kennels- very much old school methods were used there,only young pups were ever wormed,the adults never vaccinated,weaker/struggling pups were never aided by humans.
Malformed/diseased pups were always culled as soon as it became apparent there was an issue...and i have to admit that these dogs were rarely unwell and were hardy animals- as a young girl working in these conditions at first i was horrified but soon learnt why things were done the way they were
Experience sides me with Cadgi
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 13, 2010 6:50:45 GMT -5
The reasons we see less dogs dying of disease today just may be because 90% of people today 'do' vacinate, and therefore reduce the amount affected. When people stopped giving kids MMR jabs cases of the diseases in question rose dramatically. Each to their own but i am not convinced at all, and consider not vacinating an unessesary Russian rulette. We are always told as apprentices when trimming a horses foot "carefull, remember thats the horses foot, not yours", which applies to this situation. I dont think there is room for experiment when such serious consequences for the animal (not you) are present.
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Post by stag on Apr 13, 2010 8:42:29 GMT -5
Again Lyndon and Bev are talking from years of hands on experience...which to me is somthing you cant read on the net and quote off.
If you read properly what Debs wrote she said she does puppy jabs then again at a year old...Now Digger the champ that he is has come to a good age...so there for his last jabs were done years ago but still helped with his recovery.So to me that is living proof that there is no need to jab year after year as Debs said if there ammune then there ammune.
Is that 90% figure fact or just pulled out off fresh air.
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cadgi
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Post by cadgi on Apr 13, 2010 9:29:15 GMT -5
it's not experimenting it's fact, seen with one's own eye's. (not some thing written by a scientist to aid the company he work's for or sponserd by.) dog men of old had their way's and method's and they worked, funny how showing dog's and vet's arose around the same time, (money spinner). untill then it was all done in house so to speak. dog lost their function and became luxuaries and there was an opitunity for some (the old dog men) to become specialist's and make money, hey presto the vet was born. typical human being man/woman putting themselve's on a pedistal and useing big word's and a fancy title to make a bigger buck. man thinking he can do better than nature and everytime we make more problem's than we started with. we are the thickest animal on the planet it just hasn't sunken in yet. Just one example for you, the planet is over populated, not enough water or food to go around and what do these scientist's do rather than sort the problem they add to it, they are now working on method's in pill form to make you live longer, and women having children in their 70's, not to mention dolly the sheep, fuck me they ain't half clever these scientist's hey, farmer's here in wale's have been replicating sheep for hundred's of year's, it's called breeding in these part's. dog's year's ago were stronger because the weak were weaded out at birth or at work so the strong survived, now we breed litter's the weak survive, spend all their live's on drug's to keep them alive and then go on to get bred from weakening the whole gene pool. Good mate of mine (Adrian, some of you will know him, feel free to ask him) wanted a pup, lined him up with one out of my bitch attaya, she had two one dog, one bitch.he wanted the bitch but at an early stage she was faiding spent £££££ in the vet's, went to the vet's to pick her up and they said she'd be o.k. if she was put on a course of this and that, i told the vet i would cull, the nurse went potty saying that they'd spent day's with her and how cruel i was. i explained my reasoning to the vet and he told the nurse to be quiet saying i know what i'm doing. Adrian was non to happy when i said i'd culled the pup he'd wanted and said i was messing him around, i explained to adiran that there was no way was i going to give him a pup that was knacker'd in my eye's and i would be doing him, his family, my dog's and my self an injustice, i'm breeding functional dog's (i hope), not cabbage's or walking vet's bill's. talk to adrian now and he has more respect for what i do and why i do than ever. if vet's were all about healthy dog's/animal's ask your selve's why then they never shut the k.c. down year's ago, simple, it's the bad breeding practise's that keep vet's in range rover'sand tweed's. just a thought.
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 13, 2010 9:41:43 GMT -5
Top post Lyndon, much like what Bev and Glen are saying too........I for one think experience can over rule any "scientific" statistic put on paper by business men who live in huge houses with the a selection of expensive cars......its all a business as far as im concerned. Dog men of old are the ones that have spent generations and years of work dedicated to dogs, they stand to lose so much more, because of all their work they have put in and I cant see them walking their entire yard of 50+ dogs down to the vets for their annual booster lol ;D
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kager
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Post by kager on Apr 13, 2010 12:22:28 GMT -5
Good post Lyndon..I'd of culled the wee female too..left to nature she wouldn't of survived..and nature is the sure fire way of sorting out survival of the fittest.. Glen, yep you got me..Digga is now nine..his last jab was at 12 months..he contracted Lepto at two..I still did not re-vac and haven't since he had it, took him two years to be 100% but he did it..even the vet said he was a tough bastard..lol..same with all my dogs, regardless of what happens last jab 12 months.... |
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 13, 2010 13:02:36 GMT -5
Good post Lyndon..I'd of culled the wee female too..left to nature she wouldn't of survived..and nature is the sure fire way of sorting out survival of the fittest.. Glen, yep you got me..Digga is now nine..his last jab was at 12 months..he contracted Lepto at two..I still did not re-vac and haven't since he had it, took him two years to be 100% but he did it..even the vet said he was a tough bastard..lol..same with all my dogs, regardless of what happens last jab 12 months.... Haha enough scientific proof for me, thanks Deb   |
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 13, 2010 13:20:08 GMT -5
Again Lyndon and Bev are talking from years of hands on experience...which to me is somthing you cant read on the net and quote off. If you read properly what Debs wrote she said she does puppy jabs then again at a year old...Now Digger the champ that he is has come to a good age...so there for his last jabs were done years ago but still helped with his recovery.So to me that is living proof that there is no need to jab year after year as Debs said if there ammune then there ammune. Is that 90% figure fact or just pulled out off fresh air. just copying sonia's figure  |
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Post by ragingstormkennels on Apr 13, 2010 13:29:02 GMT -5
Again Lyndon and Bev are talking from years of hands on experience...which to me is somthing you cant read on the net and quote off. If you read properly what Debs wrote she said she does puppy jabs then again at a year old...Now Digger the champ that he is has come to a good age...so there for his last jabs were done years ago but still helped with his recovery.So to me that is living proof that there is no need to jab year after year as Debs said if there ammune then there ammune. Is that 90% figure fact or just pulled out off fresh air. just copying sonia's figure LOL Grow up FFS! I said 90% of people I know! Which is an actual statistic lmfao ;D ;D |
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