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Post by orangepeel on Jun 7, 2010 15:53:14 GMT -5
Theres no need to test your dogs this way now days, why would you? the dogs with the most fire in there bellies today that have never been tested, nor there recent ancestors are more than adequate. Its Macho Bull-shit. The Pit dog was the best at the pit, fair enough but i fail to understand the glorification of the type of man that fought or fights dogs. It may of been diffrent times then, but theres no excuses imo, even less today. That dont make me airy fairy, i could watch boar hunting all day, the bravery, the skill of the hunt, etc etc but it has a purpose. Dog fighting imo can be described as nothing but senseless. Please tell me what is the benifit of pitting dogs. The dogs that survived this ABUSE should be remembered, not the men. I will look down my nose at this practice but never at the dogs. 'Insecurity' may of been harsh, Its nice to recieve recognition for your efforts with your dog, but real working dogs(which the majority of ours are not) dont need them. In fact no dog needs em. But they will make most owners feel better about themselves.
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Post by orangepeel on Jun 7, 2010 16:33:46 GMT -5
I do think there is a massive purpose for the conformation show, to keep the structures of these great atheletes sound, and to give an understanding of the type to the viewers, but the gr ch tiles are not needed. Reading, listening and understanding critiques is important, you may disagree with them but you should be able to understand the reasons for the points made. Champ titles for athletic events are again nice for the owner, but why the need to cling to the good old bad days with type of title?
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Post by nosurrender on Jun 7, 2010 17:05:07 GMT -5
Orangepeel you say you could watch boar hunting all day, think about what you are saying. Having a pack of dogs track 1 boar through a forrest then corner it having the dogs baying at it till a catchdog is then set on it untill the hunter either stabs or shoots it. Now thats Macho Bull-shit. The boar has no choice in this activity, he is out numbered and has to run for his life for miles untill he cant go on then gives up to then be attacked and then finally shot, thats real sport that is. The Cajun test on the other hand is completely different and im not talking like our asian friends do in a dissused house or factory im talking proffesional dogmen.Have you ever tryed to make a dog do something it doesnt want to do, you cant. You have a terrier and you can not make it worry rats or go to ground to find a fox it does it because some dedicated people spent years selectively breeding to make it do that job. The list is endless the Retrever,the Collie and German Shepard to name but a few are all workers and if you bought one and it did not work would you be happy. The match dog is given every choice to not participate because once he comes of age if he is not interested in the test he is not used and then not bred either and thats how it should be. The trouble with todays Staffords "there to hard to get going and to easy to stop" not my words by the way they are Mallens and I bet the poor fuckers turning in his grave right now
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Post by orangepeel on Jun 8, 2010 6:46:25 GMT -5
I understand the breeding dogs in order to control live stock, ie Bull dogs etc. Yes my terrier will take vermin. I have no problem with worker being bred to worker, thats how it should be. But the work should have purpose, and the purpose should not be for human entertainment when its at the cost of unnessesary extreme pain to the dog. I know many Staffords that Turn on in a flicker and would not stop easily. I dont know how far they would go. I dont wish to know, my human nature would have to stop any needless violence. I admire the fighter that survived all those trials, cant say the same for the men that instigated it. I love to watch boxing, ive competed at Judo, but im afraid these are sports in my mind, not matching dogs. Ive read mr Strattons books, well written arguments in the favour of matching dogs but i cannot agree with the arguments In any way. Its something ive thought long and hard about because i do love the Bull and terrier attitude, but im sure about my stance on things. I dont think we will loose the fire to the extent that the dogs become flat if we test for prey drive, fitness, structure, obedience and good temperment. We can do all this legally and for the betterment of the dogs and there future. No need to hang on to the past but it should be studied. In fact i think as humans we owe them a huge debt and protection for the abuse we have given them. I do agree with you in not using those titles for our dogs, but only because its the titles that glorify something I dislike hugely.
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Post by nosurrender on Jun 9, 2010 15:55:47 GMT -5
Orangepeel you are entitled to your views on this as am I but I find it hard to understand your disgust in this method of testing when you enjoy other forms of bloodsports. Boxing is the human equivalent, there is no reason for it other than to see who the best is at the chosen weight as with the dogs, a boxer trains for months untill he is in peak condition coming upto a fight as with the dogs, when the fight begins there is a ref to esure all rules are followed as with the dogs and if a fighter has been knocked down and given the count it is exactly the same as a dog scratching. No Surrender
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Post by orangepeel on Jun 9, 2010 16:22:18 GMT -5
A boxer does not fight with teeth, there is no comparison im afraid. There are timed rounds in boxing, proper medical facilities. A boxer choose's to live this life. A dog does not. A dog goes all out to kill, again not the same. Ask anyone whos been in a kill or be killed situation whether or not its a sport.
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Post by nosurrender on Jun 10, 2010 13:26:39 GMT -5
Orangepeel I have had your thoughts on the boxing vs dogfighting could you please explain the boar hunting vs dogfighting difference from points made earlier
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Post by orangepeel on Jun 10, 2010 13:47:40 GMT -5
Simple, meat on the table for rural communities, and control numbers of a destructive mob. Now i have answered you, you still didn't anwer my question. That was 'whats the benefit of dog fighting'? Whats the justification? You mentioned earlier that if we all thought like some on here(meaning me) we would have no game dog. You are quite correct as if i had a choice of millions of smashed up dogs due to these trials or no pit dogs today, it would be no pit dog. I wont say no 'game dog' as i believe there are other tasks that require gameness and have a legitimate work .
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Post by nosurrender on Jun 10, 2010 14:24:31 GMT -5
I think you maybe taking this a bit to heart we are on a forum to discuss dog related subjects, the comment I made about "if we all thought like some on here" was a general observation. It just so happens you are the only person who can be arsed to debate the on the subject. Your comments regarding boar hunting, meat for the table yes, control of a destructive mob I dont buy into that. Why if that was the case would you use a pack of dogs, why not just shoot it with a high powered rifle give it a quick death. You would not expect a pack of dogs to do that to a deer, it is culled properly with a rifle.Why in your eyes is it ok for a dog to attack another animal yet you are horrified by dog on dog violence.You are a hypocrite you enjoy some bloodsports but not others. Your terrier, do you enjoy seeing it working, doing the job its bred to do. Well "pit" dogs were also bred for a job and like it or not many men enjoy seeing it do the job it was meant to do and I dont mean jumping over a piece of wood No Surrender
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Post by k9 on Jun 10, 2010 14:42:44 GMT -5
I enjoy every minute of watching my dogs running rabbits in the beam..its not so much the kill i enjoy but the chase and watching them do the job they were bred for and the fact that i can get a meal for free for me and my dogs rather than giving the supermarkets more of my hard earned money,every mans right in my eyes. I cant put lamping a few rabbits in the same catagory as dog on dog stuff though.
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Post by nosurrender on Jun 10, 2010 14:48:44 GMT -5
No its not in the same catagory K9 but what you have just said is so true, there is no greater pleasure than seen your own dog perform the job it was bred to do whatever the job is
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Post by relic on Jun 10, 2010 15:42:37 GMT -5
How about this poor little fuckers job, breed and used by a pervert sickening
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Post by orangepeel on Jun 10, 2010 15:55:22 GMT -5
Shes already pulled them to one side, dirty cow!. No surrender, you still didnt tell me the benefits of the pit. You mentioned that you thought boar hunting was infact macho bull shit and has unethical practices. Fair enough, it probably has the same style of hunting as the Beagle pack after the Hare, completely exhuasting its opponent, but again i would not compare this to the pit
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Post by nosurrender on Jun 10, 2010 16:33:46 GMT -5
There are a few benefits that spring to mind, 1st the benefit for you is you now get to own a piece of history,a gladiator dog with spirit and courage like no other (if you can get a real one) 2nd it helps selection of the best of the best for breedings and 3rd it satisfys a blood lust for a select few. The last comment may seem harsh but I am honest in my writings, call me sick but I would love nothing more than to have been round to witness the bull and bearbaiting events, to see a game bulldogge in its hayday. If it was good enough for Kings and Queens then its good enough for me
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Post by relic on Jun 11, 2010 1:01:13 GMT -5
I would of been there like a shot with the rest of the baying crowed but it was accepted back then as the norm we new no better but it has all been band for nearly 200 years in England.
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